FAQ
Commonly asked questions here
Please keep in mind this is not written by a tire
Engineer or an expert and is only an attempt to provide some of the more common
traits exhibited by a given tire.
There has been much discussion, and many postings on this
message board, regarding the choice of tire brands and types, and the
performance/safety thereof, especially when it comes to using a Car Tire (CT)
on the rear of a wing. As a result, I
thought I’d try to compile some of that information in one place (here) to
assist others with questions they might have as they evaluate different tire
choices. By doing this, hopefully, one
will understand it is just not a simple answer to the question of “What tire
should I use?”
Slow
Speed
First let’s look at SLOW speed (say backing out of a
parking space) handling with a CT.
The bike wants to be supported by the tire. Unfortunately, in the above picture, most of
the tire is hanging off “over a ledge” and the bike wants to fall (to the left)
until the tire is supporting the bike.
Not too surprising. It also
should be no surprise that a Motorcycle Tire (MT) doesn’t exhibit this
characteristic due to the shape of the tire.
During these slow speed maneuvers there is very little momentum built up
in the bike or the tire/wheel.
If the above is true, how can a bike ever lean through
a turn? As the bike gains speed it is
also gaining momentum. This momentum
(laws of nature) wants to keep the bike headed in the same direction until some
outside force, namely the rider, acts upon it.
Visualize it like this:
You roll two identical tires down the road. One tire you roll at one mph; the other you
roll at two mph. Assuming no other
outside force, besides the friction of the tire/road interface, acts upon
either tire, which tire will stop first?
The tire that started its travels at one mph will stop first because it
has less momentum (energy).
Picking
up the speed a little.
As you cruise down the road the bike has momentum and
will continue along its path until something acts upon the bike to alter its
direction (momentum). In this case that
something is the rider. The rider forces
a counter-steer and pushes the bike from its current (normal) path, and into a
turn. The “push” required to
counter-steer is slightly more with a heavier tire, and the flat bottom of a
CT’s tread slightly adds to the amount of push required. This is where conversations arise regarding a
CT taking more “push”, or counter-steer to initiate a turn. Remember, that flat bottom CT wants to stay
on the ground.
We also hear about the bike wanting to “stand-up”
coming out of a turn. Do you think that
might be, in part, because that flat bottom tire wants to be on the ground
again? That is part of it.
This is probably a good place to provide a WARNING for
those switching back from a CT to a MT.
There have been several accounts where a rider switches from a CT to a
MT, enters into a turn (even a city street corner), and is not prepared for the
quicker response provided by the MT-equipped bike, resulting in loss of
control.
Traction
and Contact Patch
It has often been discussed on this message board about
CTs exhibiting superior traction under any condition. Many suggest this is due to the CTs larger
contact patch, and this is probably true.
However, when one examines the formula for simple friction, one discovers
that the surface area (contact patch) is not a readily apparent variable in the
formula. Since it is beyond the scope of
this writing, interested folks can read http://insideracingtechnology.com/tirebkexerpt1.htm,
and
gain a better understanding of how the contact patch enters into the equation.
Below is a picture posted by member trialsman
showing the difference in contact patch between a MT and a CT, with the wing on
its sidestand.
Safety,
Responsiveness and Unsprung Weight
People cite many reasons for choosing a CT over a
MT. Some of those reasons include lower
tire cost, better tire mileage, smoother ride, better traction, higher load
rated tire, tire delamination, sidewall stiffness, etc. People also site reasons for why they prefer
one type of CT over another (i.e., a run-flat CT versus a non
run-flat tire). Many of the tire
choices are interrelated and often times contradictory. For example, choosing the
tire that provides the longest tire wear (harder rubber), may not provide the
best traction.
Whether we are talking MTs or CTs, choosing a heavier
tire reduces the “flickability” of the bike, however,
choosing the lightest tire may decrease the tire’s ability to support the wing
in the event the tire loses air pressure.
So let’s look at some common tires and what they weigh.
Motorcycle
(MT) tires/OEM sizes
Avon Cobra weighs 17.6 lb
Bridgestone-G704 Radial weighs 19.6 lb.
Dunlop E3 Radial weighs 21.135 lb.
Car tires (CT) from mfg data
Run-Flat (RF)
Kumho 195/55-16 CT weighs 24.7 lb.
Pirelli 195/55-16 Eufori@ CT weighs 25 lb.
Michelin 195/55-16 Primacy Alpin PA3 ZP 24.5 lb.
Non Run-Flat (NRF)
Falken
195/55-16 CT weighs 20.4 lb.
Toyo Proxes T1R 195/55-16
weighs 18.3 lb.
Bridgestone EP100 195/55-16 weighs 21 lb.
From the “natural laws” mentioned earlier, the 17.6 lb Avon Cobra, at speed, should be more responsive (flickable) than the heavier 21.5 lb
Dunlop E3, and while I have never run an Avon, I would bet that responsiveness
is noticeable during tight cornering.
Why? The heavier tire has more
momentum (energy) than the lighter tire and therefore it takes more effort to
change its direction. Many on this
message board have also written about the strong, thick sidewalls of the E3 and
the (good) job it does supporting the wing during a loss of air condition. So maybe the question should be “How much
weight are you comfortable with given your riding requirements and riding
style?”.
Quite
simply, the rotating wheel/tire sets-up a gyroscopic effect; the more weight in
motion, the more force needed to change its direction.
When applying this same logic with CTs, it follows that
the 18.3 lb Toyo NRF and the 20.4 lb
Falken NRF should be more responsive than the heavier
24.7 lb Kumho RF. In fact, both the Falken
and the Toyo are more responsive than their heavier, RF cousin the Kumho. In road tests
of the Kumho and the Toyo tires, one finds a very
pliable sidewall on the Toyo, and stiffer sidewall on the Kumho,
with the sidewall stiffness of the Falken falling somewhere
in-between the Toyo and the Kumho. These more pliable sidewalls are precisely
the reason riders operate NRF tires at higher pressures: 1) to prevent
excessive heat build-up in the tires & 2) maintain a rigid enough sidewall
to get the wing safely through the turns without over flexing the
sidewalls. It also seems reasonable that
thinner, less stiff sidewalls may provide a softer ride and may not be as
susceptible to throwing the bike off-balance with uneven pavement, as mentioned
above, when backing out of a parking space.
In my particular trials of these three tires
the Toyo was run at 49 psi; Falken at 44 psi and Kumho at 32 psi. It
is also important to note that the higher the tire pressure, the more the CT
takes on the rounded shape and handling characteristics of a MT; too high of
pressure will cause premature wear in the center of the tread.
It has been reported that the 21 lb
Bridgestone EP100 NRF can be operated at lower pressures without excessive
sidewall flex. Look at the weight of the
Bridgestone above and compare it to the other CTs listed. Weight wise, it falls right in the middle of
the NRF and RF tires. Tire manufacturers
don’t make tires heavier for no reason, due in part to the negatives of unsprung weight. Is
this extra weight due to heavier constructed sidewalls?
Run Flat designations by Tire
Manufacturers
ROF = RunOnFlat > Goodyear
EMT = Extended Mobility Technology > Goodyear
RFT = Run Flat Technology/Tyre > Pirelli, Firestone, Bridgestone
ZP = Zero Pressure > Michelin
SSR = Self Supporting Run Flat > Continental
DSST = Dunlop Self Supporting Technology > Dunlop
Flickability in Handling
In the above ramblings just what is meant by “Flickability”? Flickability is the ability to alter the direction of the
wing quickly, be it in accident avoidance or shooting a set of turns quicker. Obviously if a fraction of a second helps a
rider to avoid an accident, that is important. But what does it translate to under normal
riding conditions? Given a series of 4,
5 or 6 back-to-back, left-right-left-right turns, the five or six pound difference
in lighter tire weight (18.3 lb versus 24.7 lb) equates to an estimated fractions of a second
improvement in times “through the chute”.
It is uncommon to find such a series of tight back-to-back turns in
mountains such as those found in VA and WV.
Also note that the heavier tires, which are less “flickable”,
require more effort to pilot through the turns and require a little extra work
from the rider.
One
rider’s write up comparing the 175/60, the 195/55 and the OEM 180/60
The 175/60 is
24.3" tall; the 195/60 is 25.2" tall. Compare this to the Dunlop D250
OEM MC equipment, which is 24.81." tall. The observed height differences
have to be cut in half, as any increase in bike height is measured in the
radius, not the diameter. Make sense?
Having said that, the OEM MC tire spins about about
815 revs per mile, the 175/60 about 832 revs per mile, and the 195/60 about 800
revs per mile. Unfortunately, with the 175/60, your speedo is going to be even
further off than with a MC tire. But it does flick side to side faster and it
will pull a trailer up a steep hill longer before you have to downshift...
I think it's the thickness and strength of the RF sidewalls gives you the extra
load rating, but you may pay a price with the added unsprung
tire weight. The lighter the tire, the faster the wheel (and suspension system)
can respond to bumps, which results in less vibration, better ride, improved
grip, and less wear and tear on the driver, passenger, shock and suspension
system.
There are tradeoffs to all tire size differences, but, as all of us
doomed-to-a-fiery-death Dark Siders know, they're all mucho better than a MC
tire
How many miles are you
getting out of your CT's? Brand and mileage?
“I keep records & precise measurements of the 4 tires I have tried.
25% more than moto rear tires.A
few are partially wore only, but calculations still say 25% more. Lowest is 23%
highest @ 28% more.”
“Kumho 195 RF (w/dynabeads),
32 psi, 1-up (165 lbs), variety of roads, 18.5k
miles”
“Just took off a dunlop wintersport 205/55 with 17k miles”
“Kumho--12,300 with lots of miles with a
Rollahome tent camper”
Do you still have the
"scuff" break-in period with a CT?
Yes, a few miles on a new tire would help with a little scuffing
and slower speeds.
What affect does the CT have on gas mileage?
Most have reported ‘no change’.
I would love to have one
of those cool Darkside stickers:
Send TJ Ranch a PM. Link
What is a good starting
air pressure to run?
As with all things, what will work for one rider may not work
while for another.
But, with all the messages I have read, I am beginning to see a pattern.
Run Flats: Pressures any
from 28-36 PSI. 33-34
to be the most popular.
Non-Run
Flats: 44 PSI would be a good starting
pressure.
What does it look like while under
way?
Here
is a youtube link of a Kumho
RF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoNDo7o1d6Q&feature=player_embedded#at=204
My tire dealer (Brick & Mortar or
On-Line) is asking what kind of vehicle is the intended purchase for?
OE Applications for Tire Size 195/55R16
Make Model/Option Years
Hyundai Tiburon FX 2000–2000
Mini Cooper Hardtop 2002–2009
Nissan Cube SL 2009–2009
Nissan Sentra SE-R 2000–2006
Toyota Prius Touring 2007–2009
Toyota Corolla S 2005–2008
I have the factory TPMS system. How will it work with the system that is used
to seeing the higher settings?
I
run 32 psi cold with the Pirelli in hot South Florida climates on my 09. The TPMS will blink until the tire pressure
rises to about 36 psi. Depending on ambient temperatures, this can take about
15 to 30 minutes.
If
there is any rain or you stop for a break, then the tire pressure may drop
below 36 psi. the TPMS indicator will start to blink
again.
Using
non-run flats have the added advantage of using higher pressures that will play
will with the integrated TPMS.
Another
rider:
I have an '09, with TPMS, & use a
rear tire with 28-30 PSI.
I check air pressure every morning with a gauge. Front was set at 39-41 PSI,
rear 28-30 PSI. It takes about 30 miles for the rear to build up enough, for
the TPMS to quit flashing. Anytime we stop, even for 3-4 minutes the TPMS would
start flashing again, although it didn't take long for it to stop, once
underway.
When traveling through Banff & Jasper National parks, the OAT was 34
degrees F. The light didn't quit flashing until temps rose to 38 and above.
ANYTIME the roads were wet, the TPMS would flash...didn't make
any difference what the OAT's were.
From Boldwing:
Dummies Guide to resetting TPMS sensors
I just successfully registered my Tire
pressure sensors on my 2012 GW. I needed to do this because I installed a new
rear wheel and tire from a trike takeoff of another 2012 wing. I thought I
would document my experience. This information is summarized from the 2012
Goldwing Service Manual. It applies to Goldwings
manufactured 2009-2012.
Tools needed:
ATEQ VT-15 available from TireRack.com for about $100.
Fork terminal (or paper clip) to short the connector.
I used a commonly available fork terminal because it fits perfectly in the
connector. There is a special Honda tool for this called the Honda SCS Service
Connector 07WPZ-0010100 for about $20.
1. Place the bike on the center stand.
2. Rotate both tires so that the valve stems are at six o'clock.
3. remove the seat.
4. remove the TPMS short connector from the boot. This is a red connector located aft on the
left frame rail. Take off the dummy cap to expose the two connector terminals.
5. add air to both tires to put the sensors in
programming mode. This requires that the tire pressures be at least 51 psi. I
used 55 psi. After adding air, wait for at least 1 minute for the sensors to go
into programming mode.
6. place the VT-15 tool next to the front wheel
sensor. I placed the VT-15 on a block of wood about 1 inch off the ground and
within 6 inches of the front sensor.
7. turn on the ignition, then within 15 seconds insert
the fork terminal in the short connector.
8. turn on the VT-15 (click left button). The nice
thing about the VT-15 is that you don't have to hold the button on, it stays on so you can be standing to look at the TPMS indicator light on the dash.
9. in 3 or 4 seconds the TPMS indicator light should begin blinking at 1
Hz. The front sensor is now registered successfully.
10. within 1 minute point the VT-15 at the rear
sensor. The TPMS indicator light will begin to blink at 3
Hz. The rear sensor is now successfully registered.
11. remove the fork terminal from the short connector.
12. turn off the ignition.
You're Done.
Now bleed the air pressure down to 36 front/ 41 rear.
Put the short connector back in the boot and install seat.
Important: Go for a 5 minute ride to get the sensors out of programming mode.
Additional comments:
You have to leave the tires inflated to 51psi
for one full minute before they enter the "test mode" so be sure to
wait a minute before trying to ping them with the tool.
Also, after you get done, you can confirm proper operation by turning off the
ignition, and then shorting the connector and leaving it shorted. Now turn on
the ignition and start the bike. Both the Low pressure and TPMS lights will
come on. Now go for a short ride with the connector still shorted. When the
front tire sensor is picked up, the Low Tire light will go out and when the
rear one is picked up, the TPMS light will go out. When both lights go out, you
know that both sensors are registered properly, and you can remove the short.
Also, it is not possible to register just one wheel. You have to do them both
together, even if you only changed one sensor.
(Editor Comment) If you are running a CT
with lower PSI than the front tire, switch the order of which tire sensor gets
programmed first.
Mounting and Balancing Questions:
Is there any product
similar to Dyna-beads but cheaper?
I have been using the Airsoft BBs for quite a long time now (two
sets of tires or more). I tried the Copperheads... but they make this funny
'Raining metal' sound when you stop... the Air Soft don't make any noticeable
noise. They don't rust, corrode, or degrade as near as I can tell. Takes a
little more volume to get the same weight... I just used a postal scale.
How the static balancers
sold by NoMar, HF, & others compare to a dynamic
spin balancer as far as accuracy?
Narrow tires like MC tires static balance just fine. The wider the
tire the more you need to dynamic balance them. ( Because
the heavy spot is frequently off center) Same with Dyna-beads,
they don't work well in wide tires but they work great in narrow tires because
they stay in the middle of the tire. It is always better to have the weight
lined up opposite of the heavy spot in the tire.
Static balance just works to keep the tire from hopping up and
down.
Dynamic balancing does the same plus keeps it from shaking side to
side too, but to dynamic balance the weights have to be as close to the sides
of the tires as possible. (hard to do on a MC rim,
easy on a car rim) To static balance you want the weight in the center of the
tire if possible. (MC clip on weights)
Directional and Asymmetrical Tires
Barry's Tire Tech
has some great information with regards to tire direction and the
asymmetrical tread patterns.
Directional
Tires
will have an arrow on the sidewall. If it doesn't have an arrow, it's non-directional!
And, it doesn't matter which way it rotates.
Directional
tires are primarily about wet traction - although snow traction is sometimes
the intent in the design. As a general rule, directional tires will have an
"arrowhead-like" tread pattern - it seems to point in the direction
of travel.
If
you mount a directional tire backwards - so that it is rotating the wrong
direction - the only problem caused is wet (or snow) traction. It does not
affect wear, pull, dry traction, ride, or any other characteristics. If you
have one of those problems, then the problem has nothing to do with the
direction of rotation of the tires.
Read more about Directional and
Asymmetrical Tires here:
http://www.barrystiretech.com/directionalandasymmetricaltires.html
Do you NOT need to balance
the tire if you're installing Dyna-beads?
No, you don't have to balance the tire the Dyna-beads
will do the trick for the life of the tire.
I have a Kumho 195-55-16 run flat on the back & a BS 709 front. I am looking at getting a changer which will allow me
to do these 2 tires as they seem to be a good combination.
You need to buy the changer and the Motorcycle Adapter, you can
throw away the top section of arm because it is just in the way, and have less
than $100 in you changer not including another $100 for a MoJo
Lever, I separate that cost because you need to buy that bar anyway regardless
what changer you use.. The Run Flat differs because of
the stiff sidewall and that make it a little harder to push it into the drop
center on the wheel but you will have this problem whichever changer you use. NoMar sells a clamp called Helping Hands, they say it is
not for GW tires but I use them and they push the sidewall into the drop center
making it easier to mount the bead you can easily do the same thing with 2 or 3
strips of oak flooring pushed in. I made a static balancer it is not hard to do
but now I use Dyna Beads so you do not need one if
you use Beads. I do not use the lube or soap. I use spray Silicone. The
Silicone is absorbed by the rubber and I do not want the lube or soap balling
up the beads in the tire. Last but not least you can post what area you live
and see if someone around you will do it for you. I do it for anyone that wants
to come here as long as they want to help, it is not a problem for me and there
may be someone around you that does the same.
I already have a "Centramatic Balancer" is this a good choice over the
beads?
If you have Centramatics you should be
good to go. I am running Centramatics and have had
absolutely no issues. Not sure if Centramatics are
better or worse that Dyna Beads.
Can
you still use the Cycle Hill Tire Changer (http://www.cyclehilltirechanger.com/)
with a CT?
BOUGHT THE CYCLE HILL TIRE CHANGER JUST FOR THE CAR TIRE AND IT
WORKS GREAT. JUST USE A LOT OF LUBE. HAVE MOUNTED 3 TIRES SO FAR AND I AM
PLEASED WITH IT
How to remove/install a
mount wheel
Since the tire is wider, it will be a tighter fit when removing
and placing the mounted tire in the back of the bike. Once in place there shouldn’t be any problems
with rubbing if you are using the 195/55/16.
1) Set the rear suspension pre-load on 12 (for my Traxxion bike).
2) Put bike in gear.
3) Lay the bike down on right side.
4) Extend the center stand.
5) Remove the lug nuts.
6) Put the bike in neutral.
7) Remove old tire/wheel.
8)Insert the new tire/wheel, fully aired to 32 psi,
into the wheel well. As push the tire up into the well you will feel it hit
something. Stop and take a look up into the cavity so you can see what it is
hitting. You will see it is hitting the inner fender, which is at about the 10
O'clock position. That is the hump you are trying to get over. So what you want
to do is lift on the lower edge of the tire/wheel at about the 5 O'clock
position at the same time you give the wheel a couple of nudges with your knee
(in other words it is like kicking it up in there). As it goes in it will
actually move forward of the axle center line, and up into the well. Once in,
you will have all the room you need to move it around and get it onto the wheel
lugs.
9) Reverse above steps to reassemble.
I have not used a plastic (i.e., Wal-mart) bag in
between the tire and the fender well hump. However, on the first one I mounted
I had trouble (I was afraid to give it a good shove up into the hole) and I
sprayed silicon spray all over the plastic fender well and the tire. Good luck.
Can I mount a CT on a
GL1500?
http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2798229&postcount=1
Tire: Rear: 175/60/16 Dunlop Wintersport
ROF Radial
Tire: Front: Dunlop-E3 Bias
Bike: GL1500
Test: 1,400 miles, mostly freeway, some canyon; dry
Mounting on Rim:
Pro: Easily mounted at automotive shop. Note that it has a Directional Arrow on
sidewall, showing the rotational direction.
Con: Tire shop mis-seated the bead due to not using
enough pressure to pop it onto the rim... Be sure to visually check the seating
prior to leaving the shop.
Con: Not possible manually (eg Using Harbor Freight
Machine)... the sidewalls are just too tough. (Worse experience than when I
mounted a 195CT non-rf)
Mounting on Bike:
Pro: Easy.
Pro: 1/4" clearance remains on right side, same as for a Dunlop E3
195mm on a Gl1500
A friend just pulled in my
driveway with a 195mm General NRF on his 1500 GW bike..... Had to take a pic...
I don't know if you can see the curve on the sidewall... It's pretty
radical.... He says it works well.... Told him I had a new 175mm I would sell
him.. However, he had just mounted the tire.... He's
running it at 51 pounds.
Should I be concerned with
any potential legal ramifications?
Here are two different point of views in the sense of whether is would be legal.
One darksider’s
view:
"Experts" that say don't use a CT are often brought up
as why you shouldn't use a CT on a motorcycle. Why shouldn't we use a CT on a
motorcycle? The best reason I can find is "it wasn't designed for
it". This sounds similar to what any good designer/engineer would say of
their product. If they didn't design if for a certain use then they can't be
assured it will operate to their design specs.
I'll venture to guess that a CT doesn't operate within the designs specs when
on a motorcycle (a stretch I know). I don't think whether or not a CT is
designed to work on a motorcycle is up for debate. Seems
pretty straight forward to me. But I want to know what other reasons
they have for not recommending it. Does the tire failure prematurely? Does the
tire provide inferior traction? Are there handling problems that a CT invokes?
"It wasn't designed for it" isn't a reasonable response/answer to not
using a CT. What are the consequences? That's what I want to know. The tire
manufacturers appear unwilling to address this.
So just because a product isn't designed for a certain use doesn't mean that
the product is unsafe. It also doesn't mean it is illegal to operate a
CT on a motorcycle.
There are far to many people
running CTs on far to many different brands/models of
motorcycles to reasonably conclude that the practice is unsafe. Not at least
when used on heavy cruisers/touring motorcycles with limit cornering clearance.
I would expect the handling characteristics of a CT on a 400lb sport bike would
be unacceptable for street riding. But we are discussing this practice of CTs
on heavy bikes.
If it were unsafe, I would expect many examples of CT failures. This evidence
doesn't exist in any serious volume. Are "darksiders"
all hiding their CT failures out of saving face? Perhaps if I were more of a
conspiracy believer I could buy into the lack of evidence. I just think there
is a lack of evidence because it just doesn't happen.
So now we come to the "you could be sued" or "your insurance
company may deny your claim". I just see the "law suit"
reasoning as another scare tactic. Folks can no longer stand on the "crash
and burn" scare tactic because there have been far to many people for far to
long running CTs and not crashing because of it. Seeing folks using things
different seems to invoke such reactions of fear. Something I don't subscribe
to.
Could I be sued for negligence for using a CT if I was involved in an accident?
Sure. I could also be sued for negligence for any number of other reasons. I
don't see the use of a CT any higher on the scale of sue-able offenses.
I am responsible for operating the vehicle in a responsible manner. For me that
means I should use all due care to be as safe as possible for both myself and
others. For me, having experienced 2 MT tire failures, I see it as being
responsible to myself and passenger to investigate other options.
Any lawyer/client looking to point to a CT (not just a tire but because it is a
car tire) as the root cause would have a very hard battle ahead of them. For
all the "experts" the prosecutor brings up, the defense can show
contrary evidence. It would all come down to whom the better attorney is, not
who is right.
Doing anything "unusual" is a risk in this litigious society but to
deny myself the potential additional safety that a CT could provide doesn't
seem reasonable to me. A say "could" because I've just begun using a
CT. I only have 1,500 miles on it. So far, I have had no problem scraping hard
parts and performing all the maneuvers I could perform with a MT. I have
observed significantly less heat (something I believe caused my previous MT
failures) by 40-50%. I did my research. It was clear to me that the use of a CT
wasn't dangerous. I see no reason why a jury couldn't also come to the
same conclusion.
I just see the "law suit" reasoning as a scare tactic. Folks can no
longer stand on the "crash and burn" scare tactic because there have
been far to many people for
far to long running CTs and not crashing because of
it. Seeing folks using things different seems to invoke such reactions of fear.
Something I don't subscribe to. I'm more curious and like to investigate and
learn more instead.
If the MT developers would provide a tire that wasn't so stressed on a Wing so
that it didn't have such a high failure rate, I'd use it. Until then, it would
be negligent for me to not continue to look for a better alternative. At this
point, the alternative I'm testing is a CT.
A non-darksider
view:
“There are 250 million registered passenger vehicles in the US,
and almost 10 million motorcycles. For arguments sake, let's say there are 2000
riders out there with car tires on their bikes.
That's 0.0008% of the vehicles on the road running the wrong tire on their
bike. It is such a small amount that virtually nobody outside the motorcycle
community would even be aware that this is being done. (Most motorcycle riders
are probably not even aware of it.)
Being that far under the radar, it is unlikely an insurance company would ever
think to even look for such a thing in an accident. I imagine there probably
are a few inspectors out there that have noticed it and caused riders problems
with claims. But it would still be a rarity.
If CT use did become widespread, (highly unlikely), then maybe at some point
down the road insurance companies might start looking a little closer and this
might become an issue. But for now, it isn't.”
“First of all, states don't develop motor vehicle safety
standards. Those standards are set by the NHTSA, which enforces the FMVSS. The
states simply enforce Federal law. I guess from that standpoint he is right. PA
doesn't have such a law. Why would they?
Secondly, tires are certified by the DOT for their intended use. If you run a
tire on any vehicle that is not intended for that use, you are not running a
DOT approved tire, despite the labeling on the tire. You can't run a tire that
is DOT certified for light truck use on a truck that has a GVWR over 10,000
pounds. A prosecuting attorney in an injury case would have an easy day in
court proving negligence, despite the DOT approval on the tire. He wouldn't
have to bother with load ratings and all sorts of other numbers.
This is not a matter of what is legal and what is illegal. It is the liability
that results from willfully doing something negligent. The law doesn't require
that I keep snow and ice off my sidewalk in the winter. But if someone were to
slip and fall, and get hurt, I could still be held liable due to negligence.
As I said earlier, this issue is so far under the radar that it is unlikely to
ever be a problem. But that doesn't mean it couldn't. All it takes is a gung ho
investigator looking for anything he can find, and you could be faced with a
problem, even if the tire had nothing to do with it. Sometimes just the
appearance of impropriety can work against you.
If you want to run a car tire, do it. But don't kid yourself by trying to
convince yourself and others that the law and courts support you in your
decision. They don't. You and your fellow supporters stand alone in this.”
Why I didn’t like the CT.
The main thing was I had two things
happen that put me off. One was it slipped on a paint stripe when dry. Ok, I
could deal with that. Then I had a problem where the tire wanted to track with
the cracks in the road. Happened in a turn on me where the bike wanted to track
with the crack instead of taking the line I wanted to take.
I did not like how if you were on a road with to much
of an angle and stopped the bike did not want to stay up straight, the tire
would want to lay flat.
If you do the twisties hard there is a split second
delay switching side to side. Did not like that.
I didn't like how it felt in general in the turns. To me it does not feel safe.
The thought was not in my mind that I need to get used to it. The thought in my
mind was this does not feel safe. The only time I thought it was good was when
I was going in a straight line.
Anyone can ride what they want, but in my mind I think it's crazy. I'm sorry
but after trying it, I really feel that a car tire is not for a motorcycle. I
just really have to question if they are so great like the folks state on the
forum why is it that not a single motorcycle manufacturer
uses them. There are thousands of models out there and not one of them use them. Even BossHoss bikes
stopped using them. There has to be a reason and I now have my own personal
opinions as to why from actual experience.
(-FUSE 7/1/11)
Tire Choices
Polls by Stick!
Front Tire Used with Rear Car Tire
Results of Poll 11/4/2010…
Bridgestone G709 Radial 130/70R-18 (63H)____75
Battlax BT-45____________________________30
Avon AV71 Cobra________________________10
Metz Lasertec 130/70H18
Bias______________10
Dunlop Elite 3 Front Tire___________________9
Metzler 880 Marathon Bias Ply_______________3
Michelin Pilot Activ________________________1
Pirelli Sport Demon_______________________1
Compare with a poll from last year (9/30/09):
Bridgestone 709_________________________43
Bridgestone Battlax
BT45__________________35
Avon Cobra_____________________________08
Dunlop Elite III Bias______________________07
Michelin Pilot Activ_______________________04
Pirelli Sport Demon______________________04
Metzler Lasertec_________________________03
Avon Roadrunner ________________________02
Avon Venom R__________________________01
Metzler ME880__________________________01
Michelin GT Pilot ________________________00
Poll: What Car Tire are you Running
Results
11/04/2010 - 237 Votes
Kumho ECSTA Run Flat…..195/55-16 …High Perf..Summer_______88
Pirelli eufori…195/55R16…….Run
Flat …High Perf Summer________43
Falken Ziex ZE-912…….Non
Run Flat High Perf.
Touring
Winter_________________________________________19
Dunlop SP Winter Sport 175/60/R16…….
Run Flat..
Winter________________________________________________16
Dunlop SP Sport 5000 DSST…….. All Season Radial
Non Run Flat___________________________________________11
Dunlop DSST 3000……..Run Flat All Season Radial______________11
Dunlop Winter Sport 195/55HR16 3D………
Run Flat Winter__________________________________________8
Hankook Ventus…….Non
RF_________________________________6
Goodyear Assurance radial TripleTread…….N
Run Flat…
All Season ______________________________________________6
Continental Vanco…….Non Run Flat High
Mileage LT______________6
Bridgestone Potenza G 019……Non Run Flat All Season____________6
Toyo Proxes T1R…..High Perf…Non RunFlat_____________________4
Michelin Alpin pa3 R…… Run
Flat…Winter_______________________3
Goodyear Eagle NTC5 RFCT……. Run Flat Summer________________2
Federal Evo High Perf……
Non Run Flat Summer Tire______________2
Bridgestone Ecopia EP100 Non Run Flat….. Grand Touring All Season_2
Michelin Primacy__________________________________________1
Michelin Pilot Sport________________________________________1
Dunlop 175 55 16 XL……..Extra Load RunFlat
Winter______________1
Continental Conti Pro SSR ( runflat
)195/55/16__________________1
Federal FORMOZA FD2 175/60 R16 82H……All Season_____________0
Yokohoma Avid Envigur….All
Season Perf…Non Run Flat___________0
Goodyear Eagle GT 205/60R16 Non Run Flat High Perf….All
Season__0
Compare to last year’s poll 5/09:
Kumho ECSTA RF 195/55/16
Summer________________________38
ContiPro SSR 195/55/16 All
Season__________________________24
Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW3 EMT 195/55/16 Winter___________12
Dunlop 175/60R16 - 82H SP 3D DSST ROF Winter Sport__________12
Pirelli Eufori@ RF 195/55/16
Summer_________________________08
Dunlop 195/55HR16 3D ROF Winter Sport_____________________06
Eufori@ 195/55 R16 Run Flat
Summer________________________04
Goodyear Assurance Triple 205/55/R16 All-Season______________03
Continental Vanco 2 195/65R16 Rear. 35 PSI Summer___________03
Dunlop 5000 195/60X16
All-Season__________________________03
Firestone Firehawk 195-55-16 All-Season ______________________03
Goodyear Excellence R/F 195/55-16 Summer___________________01
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S plus 205/55-16 All-Season______________01
Riken 205/55X16 ________________________________________01
Yokohama Sport 205/55/16 Summer_________________________01
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 RFT 195/55
Winter__________________01
Continental 205/55 Summer _______________________________01
Michelin Primacy HP RF 195-55-16 Grand Touring Summer ________00
Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02 195/55-16 All
Season____________00
I was wondering if 195 60
16 works as well as the 55’s
I am
running a 195 60 16 and it works real well. If you want to run a run-flat, they
are limited to availability in 195 60 16 but, they are available in 195 55 16.
Who has tried a 205/55/16?
I
use the 205 size currently Dunlop Wintersport, 17k
from the last one, not that hard to get in no rubbing issues, a bit higher load
rating vs the 195, a little more ground clearance,
although not that much drop in rpms at highway speed, speedo a bit closer 2mph
high as to actual speed by GPS. I like this size and it handles great, I also
use a Kumho 205 for twisties, it has a bit more
sportier ride, somewhat more rounded than the winter sport handles more like a
MT.
What happens if a I select a taller tire for my bike? Will it change the
handling?
I was running a 70 series tire and had Traxxion
installed. The forks were set at 10 MM above as Traxxion
suggested. The handling on the bike was TERRIBLE. Just going down the road,
pulling a trailer, if I wiggled in the seat the trailer would start whipping
back and forth and I wore out a set of trailer tires in less than 10K. The
uneven grooves of the road would cause the bike to transmit a (for lack of a
better term) wave action up to me on the bike and although the bike didn't feel
like it was wobbling, my head would be going back and forth about and inch or so. I called Traxxion
and they said I had two choices....go with a 60 series or take the struts back
to flush. They said that some people had reported the same problems I had. I
had a 60 Series in the garage so I threw it on and everything was back to
normal. I guess it is a rake/trail issue.
Again, this was MY impressions and I would have loved for an expert rider to
experience what I was and tell me if I was wrong. It was bad enough that cars
would either race ahead or drop back when it started wobbling.
I was
wondering if anyone here has used a CT while pulling a trailer?
Pulled the Escapade 1100 miles and the tire still looks the same
as I put it on. I know your pain a trailer and you were over weighted on the
bike caused the 880 to flatten out. You will not do that with a ct.